eHome Digial Tools

OK, as usual I'ma gonna throw something out in the air.... if anyone wants, catch it :p

As more and more things become iPodded, or at least iPoddable (cars, home theater receivers, TVs, etc), there are a few products popping up to bridge the gap for products that arent themselves ipod aware such as this, that I've just stumbled on: http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-enterta ... 241659.php

It would be cool, however, to have an ipod module in future. That way, someone can plug in their ipod to the USB port, and gain control over it from the eHome system (possibly even remotely from another server/client)...

This can probably be accomplished by an external program, but since I am currently too busy to program even my own camera app (evne though I plan on having it sometime) I'll just toss it up here.

I'm pretty sure there are docks on how to get the stuff from the iPod, and I have used a program in the past called RoadRunner (made for CarPCs) that was able to pull stuff from the ipod. Basically, it treated the ipod just as an HD, and displayed all the songs, playlists, etc on screen and played the files through winamp.

EDIT: this is the format for the itunes DB. Getting at files isnt very difficut since they are stored as MP3s on the ipod and although renamed weirdly the ID3 tags remain intact. The DB file, however, allows an application to display on screen the playlists and artists, etc stored on the ipod. (The site was down when I tried so this is the google cache: http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:a0 ... -a&strip=1 )

Another thing I would love is XMradio. I even have interface code for this. Wait... come to think of it did we just not have a merger between sirus and xm?

I just had a look at that site on how the iPod stores its data... What was apple thinking? Seems to me though if the ID3 tags are intact then it does not matter how apple stores them.

Actually it does because you need to be able to read the playlists and load those up... Most ppl I know (in fact everyone I know) stores their music organized mainly by playlists, so it makes sense to have playlist support.

Also, assuming several thousand songs in an 80gb ipod, it isnt practical to read every single file's ID3 tag in order to categorize them...


PS: after we can play ipod songs, might as well be able to "rip" a playlist/song from the ipod to the internal storage!

RoyN wrote:Actually it does because you need to be able to read the playlists and load those up... Most ppl I know (in fact everyone I know) stores their music organized mainly by playlists, so it makes sense to have playlist support.

Also, assuming several thousand songs in an 80gb ipod, it isnt practical to read every single file's ID3 tag in order to categorize them...


PS: after we can play ipod songs, might as well be able to "rip" a playlist/song from the ipod to the internal storage!

I know, I am the funny one here. i dont use playlists... I play by CD. Must be because I still think of a CD as a record. You know those big funny black things... LOL

And oh yeah, cant let good content go to waste....

RoyN wrote:Actually it does because you need to be able to read the playlists and load those up... Most ppl I know (in fact everyone I know) stores their music organized mainly by playlists, so it makes sense to have playlist support.

Also, assuming several thousand songs in an 80gb ipod, it isnt practical to read every single file's ID3 tag in order to categorize them...


PS: after we can play ipod songs, might as well be able to "rip" a playlist/song from the ipod to the internal storage!

Hmm I disagree I think all ID3 tags should be read and cached in a storage device (small db perhaps) then the firmware should keep a record of the transactions taking place and remove\move\delete the cached id3 as it see's fit, and add new ones as it knows what new files were added to the device. Therefor, you only have a slow time during the first sync or during any major huge sync. Besides.. to read out the ID3 tag is much faster than the actual copy of the file, so you can do it live while it's copying and the user wouldn't know the diff


perhaps future eHome should monitor those server directories and implement something like this for auto discover\add items.

The ipod already has this same DB, so its no use to read everything... Plus, the ipod can be plugged in by any guests, etc, so I dont think its practical to make a local DB of any ipods, especially since it may be used only once on the system..

Since the IPod already has the DB, all ehome needs to do is to tap into that, and it will immediately be able to display the playlists, artists, genres, albums from the ipod. Then it will just load the files needed to play.

Auto-discovering is cool for thumbdrives, mp3 players, ipods, cameras, etc!

Ahhhh i misunderstood what you meant I thought you were saying you didn't think hand held devices should use id3...

Oh... Yeah, I just meant that ehome scanning everything would be a waste of time... much cleverer to just read the ipod db

I'm for it as long as it's device agnostic. My wife literally drowned her Nano, so I got her a Zune as a replacement. She and her work pals goof around all day sharing stuff, etc..

From what I know of the ipod and a few other players this wont be quite possible...

I also think that the most compatibility, the better, but honestly (despite not owning any device), I think that full-ipod integration is the first step... I havent any info on the Zune file-system, and maybe you could giove some info by exploring your wife's zune.

More and more commercial devices, receivers, cd players, etc are now coming with ipod docks and full on-screen ipod interfaces... this basically brings the content (including playlists , etc) into the scene... a "basic" integration that just reads all the files and plays them, using the ipod/media device as a mere external HD, could be a first step, but it wouldnt put ehome up to par with the new devices coming out...

My bad I guess I didn't understand. Good idea on ipod control request.

So the requirement is an eHome ipod controller interface, right?
You would then be controlling an ipod to play music off of it while the ipod is connected to an external amp of some kind.
You might have an ipod dock near your entertainment center (but the dock is still connected to a pc attached to an eHome touchscreen) with the dock's audio out to your stereo system. A friend might drop by with their own ipod and dock it so that it would be controlled by the touchscreen.

braindump below:

Doesn't itunes create/keep the playlists that are used on the ipod?

eHome (currently a software solution) is pc based and would have to use the ipod usb interface.

Unless you're talking about having itunes as an interface, wouldn't the requirement be to duplicate itunes but with an eHome GUI shell?
No, this request is only for an ipod player/controller not for writing to the device.

What third party solutions for the ipod that are not dedicated hardware are there?

I guess it doesn't really matter to me as most pc based storage solutions dwarf the highest capacity device out there. It's just a matter of reading a playlist so that the better halves can listen to their music. I don't know of anyone who doesn't have a copy of their playlist and music on a pc in the house.

The neat thing about RoyN's idea is for visiting guests, whose music may not be in your system, but can still control their docked ipod from any touchsreen in the house.

ipods outnumber all other players, and as the wife's playlists and music are on the pc, no need for zune requirement. Plus I don't want to hear her friend's music anyway...

Well, there are quite a few devices now adays cming with a USB port that can "speak-ipod"...

The idea for ehome would be connect any guests ipod through USB to the PC.

Then, you can see the playlists on the ipod through the ehome itnerface (since the itunes db is known as per the format in the link above) and you can select any song, it would be played through ehome, but ehome would just be reading from the ipod the mp3 file and playing it through its own player.

Basically that is the idea... Anyways, it is just a suggestion, I do think that having support for Zunes, Rios, etc would be really cool... cause you could have guests/friends coming over...

Further than this, copying the music from the ipod would be real cool too, despite having some licensing issues, it would be fine if you actually owned the CD (for example taking the ipod from your office computer, to home...), or if you lived abroad... and since Steve lives abroad, adding the functionality wouldnt necessarily put him into any trouble...

Got it.
Are those ipod speaking devices relevant to eHome for what you are asking? I mean other than examples, something that eHome could connect to?
I think in the end simplest/cost effective connectivity is usb dock. But maybe there's some other bluetooth/wifi deal I'm not aware of...

For the sake of argument , lets say everyone is law abiding.
Are people currently legally allowed to hook up other people's ipods to their own pc and download "protected" music off of them? Maybe just the unprotected MP3s from the brother's karaoke performances.

Otherwise it is a blatant copyright infringement. The examples you showed were legal as they were only playing, not copying devices.

Even all the cd/dvd ripping capabilities assume legal purposes, and are not to my knowledge breaking any DRM.

I think your original requirement is spot on though, having eHome as a control interface for the Ipod or perhaps other devices as well.

I suppose staying legal is up to Steve, but it would be a shame if he could not visit. If Steve does visit, 1st round on me.

Well, staying legal is actually up to the user

But to answer your comments... I was actually just thinking usb docks... the hardware that I know for ipods afaik are basically:

car stereos with usb hookup to ipod
home receivers that show ipod songs/playlists on screen and connect rhough usb
home ipod docks that have a audio/tv-out that show onscreen controls... like the link I put up there...

I think that protected songs wont be able to be copied since they need itunes and licenses to play... then copying unprotrected MP3s (like the ones i rip off cd of my sister singing in the shower) shouldnt be a problem, is that so? Cause we arent thinking afaik about breaking any DRM, just copying what is already in MP3...

Well playing is priority 1, being able to get some nice mixes and stuff from someones ipod is something else... to be stored on the ehome server of choice... I had this idea cause a few friends make music, DJs, bands, etc, and occasionally it would be cool to be able to get a copy without having to wait for them to go and make a cd for me...

Anyways, you're comments are very pertinent, and opened my eyes a bit to the whole protected vs unprotected msuci! thanks!!!

I was afraid of that. None of your examples are more than player/display devices, not actually content reading/writing devices.

True that the user can decide to be a pirate, but if eHome facilitates it via bypassing the DRM, I fear for its future. Still, if the user finds a helper app to strip the DRM that is not presumably eHome's concern. (of course I do not speak for eHome.)
If your buddies are giving you copies of their own unprotected content, that isn't really different than recordings of sis singing in the shower. Is this possible currently?

I'm now just asking regarding the technical limitations of being able to play and/or download music when connecting an ipod that is not recognized by your pc as your ipod.

So the question still is: Does Apple allow ipod's to be shared by multiple PCs for file read/write operations?

I'm too lazy to search an ipod forum.

Like I said my wife destroyed hers, but I should be able to find someone else with an ipod to see if there are any restrictions off to bat to connecting it to my system. Hopefully it won't automatically try to erase that ipod's contents and sync my wife's song to it...